[buzzsprout episode=’5312539′ player=’true’]
Keri Lonny, today's guest on the podcast, was lovingly called 'a hoarder' by her partner. She used to spend 3 hours a day cleaning, sorting and organizing her clutter.
Then she realized how much time and energy all this clutter was taking from her and she started to change, but then something tragic happened, her Dad died in a car accident. All of a sudden she was not just dealing with her own clutter but also had to dissolve her parents household ...
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is a personal development junkie and mom of three on a mission to help women take back their power and design lives that are fulfilling and joyous.
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Reading instead of Listening (Transcript)
FYI: this text is not polished, I try to keep it as close as possible to how the guest expressed herself/himself . Also, the time stamps start when the interview start without the intro where I introduce my guest.
Conny Graf 0:03
Welcome to my show Keri Lonny so happy to have you.
Keri Lonny 0:07
Thank you Conny for having me today. I'm happy to be here.
Conny Graf 0:10
Yeah, I'm really excited to have you because when you said you want to see on my podcast, he told me that your partner called you lovingly a hoarder one time in your life. And but now you're a minimalist mom with three children. So first, I would like to talk a little bit about the Keri who was a hoarder. So how was that?
Keri Lonny 0:33
Yeah. So I you know, I was raised.... my parents didn't make a whole lot of money when I was growing up. So I was always meant to be very frugal. And when I was 17, I actually had my first child, and I decided to be a stay at home mom. And that really shaped a lot of you know how I did things because at that point, we were making minimum wage or there was we were one household, one income household. He was making just fair wage. And it meant that I had to get super crafty.
And so my instincts told me to keep anything that I needed, or that could be useful in the future. And so I always had everything super organized, and I knew where things were, but I would hoard things that other people now these days, I look at it and I see it as trash, you know, because I didn't have the money to buy craft supplies, I would use whatever I had on hand, they did a ton of upcycling, and, you know, all of that stuff. And it really came down to living in a scarcity mindset where I didn't think I'd be able to do things unless I had all of it unless I hoarded what I needed and kept it and you know, it was really interesting because although I had it all organized, I held on to things for five or six years and never used them.
Yeah, and I think that that's really common. It's, it wasn't bad. Everything went pretty well and, you know, my household ran just fine, and I had my massive corner full of weird little boxes and all sorts of gift bags. And anytime we had something that had like, like, when you bought cellphones, I was like, Oh, I bet I can do all kinds of things with this box, you know. And so it's really been a weird shift for me to move from being, you know, a mom of one with hardly any money to a minimalist mom of three. And I'm going to share my story about that a little bit more. But I think that something that we have to really like focus on is like, when you are beginning your cluttering journey, you have to really be aware of whether something is actually impacting you and helping your life or if it's impacting you negatively, by taking up space in your brain that could be used in other ways.
Conny Graf 2:49
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just it's sometimes hard for people to grasp that because especially if they are in the situation like you are, where money's tight and everything could potentially be useful. They don't see often that all this stuff takes up space they don't see they only see how it could ever be useful. But like you said, then they don't use it for years.
So I always say there's nothing wrong with keeping cellphone boxes or paper, toilet paper rolls and whatever because you feel like you want to reuse them but maybe put a timeframe on it or just understand the impact it has on you. So you feel it had it had a lot of stress on you. Did you notice at the time how much possible stress it had on you? Or did you just feel like the it was more necessary that you needed to keep it the scarcity was too too strong?
Keri Lonny 3:54
Well, you know, that's actually interesting, because when I just had the one child, you know, I was a stay at home. Mom. And although we didn't have a lot of money I had all of that time. And so I kept a lot of things in order to decorate my home. And I kept, you know, I learned how to coupon and did all of that stuff. And it was not overwhelming at that point in my life, because I had the time to keep everything organized. And I had the energy because I was only taking care of my child, you know. And so at that point, it was fine. And it wasn't affecting my mind. It wasn't affecting my stress level. And everything felt good.
What happened is when I started picking up, like when I started going to work that added the extra stress level. And I started feeling overwhelmed at home because I didn't have the time to pick up after myself and pick up after everybody else, like I had had before. So I started noticing that all of the stuff that I had been keeping was suddenly in my way yet and I feel like that's something that people have a problem with often and then You know, as I had my second baby, a whole lot of stuff came into the home that I didn't expect.
And that's the like, that's the point where I recognized I was spending two to three hours per day cleaning and organizing all of the things that I had, that I had kept, because I might need them someday. And that was two to three hours per day that I could be spending doing something else, something more productive, and with a whole lot more return on investment of my time,
Conny Graf 5:28
that are spending it with your children. Like, yeah, it's almost like the when I'm listening to you, it's almost like you had your little side job with your stuff. Because if use two to three hours, it was like a little job on the side. But then when you actually have two children and the real job, then it became like too much. It's interesting insight.
Keri Lonny 5:51
You know it's funny that you said that actually, because I you know, and we discussed this a little bit before, but I did And I'll be talking about it later. In the interview, I think a little bit about my journey. But when I decided to start a blog, one of the things that I knew I'd be able to write about was organizing. Because I had done so much of it, I could probably branch myself as an organizer and start taking on clients. And at that point, that was one of the few skills I knew that I could do and that I had. And so it was like a little side hustle. And it really turned into one
Conny Graf 6:29
a side hustle that didn't pay anything at the time.
Keri Lonny 6:33
Actually not worth the energy at all.
Conny Graf 6:36
Well, you know, you got a skill out of it. But I often say like, when I'm going and helping my clients, I often say you can't organize clutter, or I mean, yes, you can in a way, but it is. It is fruitless. Like because it doesn't really help you know, because it's clear it's clutter. Yeah. So when what what the change that you hinted already a little bit, but something major changed in your life that got you on to the decluttering journey. So let us know about that a little bit.
Keri Lonny 7:10
Yeah, so at that point, I had been working a part time job, and I had my children, I had two babies, and we have decided to try for another child. So I knew that it was time to really get everything under control, because like I said before, with another kid, that came, even, you know, all of the baby stuff and all of the extra clutter, our home size was the same as it had been when it was just the three of us. And we had no plans to upgrade our lifestyle, you know, we just couldn't afford it at that point.
And so I had begun to really start looking at what we had and I had started cooling a little bit. You know, those things that I knew I hadn't been using, I started to try and let it go. Try and let it go. And I had a lot of encouragement at this point. You know, from my partner, he was like you said he always thought that I was a hoarder. And so he'd be like, it's just a cell phone box Keri, you can let it go. And in my mind, I was thinking, it's not a cell phone box. This is a gift box that I might have to buy for $10 in the next six months, but I had had it for two years already, and I still never used it. And so I really started doing mindset work around letting go of things that I didn't actually need and trying to really take a look at what we had in our home.
And, you know, be honest with myself, and I think that's one of the hardest things to do is to look at it and be honest about whether or not you're ever going to actually get to the plan, you know, sure. It's great that you feel inspired, but are you ever actually going to get there. And so that was kind of what started and I've been doing that for about, I'd say three months, and I really had the desire to start doing something more for myself and I kind of started looking into you know, flipping and selling things online. And so I had started shifting into this different mode and shifting out of the scarcity mode a little bit and started to really try and be intentional about my hoarding.
Um, what really changed everything was when we lost my dad in a car accident. I had found out that I was pregnant about three weeks later. So I have three babies now. And so, as a teen mom, my parents had really been there as a rock for us. And they have really supported us. We actually lived in a duplex style homes so they were right. well we were on top in the upstairs apartment and they were below the downstairs apartment. I saw my dad every single day. You know they took my babies for me when I needed a break. It was absolutely devastating for my family, you know, and my mom she was in the car with my dad and they had gone fishing and they were on their way home and got caught in a storm and he was thrown from the vehicle but... and she saw him after that she was mentally not capable of managing anything which meant that everything fell on me and my partner.
Yeah, it was extremely difficult. I mean, I went from having a lot of love and support to being the one that had to provide that and not only was I providing it for my children and my partner, but I was the one helping my mom and my brothers go through everything that they had to go through. And helping take care of their home and manage finances and all of that. Anyways, I'm going to move forward because just you know it was it was a lot of weight all of a sudden and my mom couldn't handle it. So about six months after this she decided that she needed to get out of the home and she left, and that meant that we had to get a renter because there was no way we would be able to manage paying their rent on top of ours or their mortgage, you know... and so....
Conny Graf 11:04
Can I quickly ask how old were you at that time?
Keri Lonny 11:08
I was 21 I believe, yes
Conny Graf 11:12
Wow, that's growing up fast. No?
Keri Lonny 11:14
So 21 with two kids and all of a sudden this happened yeah It was it was rough. And so I did I had to grow up fairly quickly. And that's been you know there all kinds of pros and cons on that. But so anyways, I ended up having to declutter their entire Home, which when you talk about having sentimental problems decluttering I can absolutely relate I know exactly what it feels like to have to do that and The day that they had on fishing my dad had a pair of pants that he had been wearing I think he wore him a couple times because that's what They did and he threw them up on The hook in the bathroom and those pants hung there for... oh my goodness, months. I'm talking almost a year and the day that I had to take the pants off of the bathroom hook. Oh, you should have heard it, everybody was so upset with me and I was like, What am I supposed to do you guys? I have we have to rent this or we're not gonna make it.
And so it was really hard and I I had to get rid of a lot of things and I think that people When they, like you said I had to grow up really quickly and I always did what I had to do, and they looked at me and they saw somebody that was strong and capable, enable to take care of things. And it doesn't matter what you see on the outside, I was suffering on the inside, but nobody saw that. And I didn't let them see that. And I didn't ask for help, because I didn't know who would be able to help me. And so about, oh my gosh, a couple months later, we had a couple more deaths. And my grandpa downsized, and everybody brought me all of the extra stuff. And because they thought, oh, Keri knows how to handle this. She did great with her dad.
So a year after my dad's death, I had a newborn baby. And I was drowning in clutter, just absolutely drowning. And we were just doing everything that we could to dig our way out of it. And I was so desperate that I thought maybe I can flip this stuff and I can really make those dreams a reality. I have to do something because we're drowning financially. We're drowning in clutter and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. And that is kind of what spurred my business or my entrepreneurial journey which eventually led to my minimalism. So I started trying to sell the things that I could and I started bringing more things into my home because they had potential to flip. And I really was still struggling with the balancing everything, you know, taking care of my family and taking care of my business and balancing my time.
And it took a probably another year before I really got to a point where I was able to just look at something and say, Yes, I can use this and I will make time for it or No, I can't. And I think that you know, this decluttering journey, people think that we just have to do it one time and then everything becomes easy. You just clean your house out once and then it's good. It's gotten taken care of. And that's just not what how
Conny Graf 14:41
famous promotes that, too, so....
Keri Lonny 14:44
Yeah yes, that is just not realistic, especially if you have other people in your home, things are gonna just keep coming in and circumstances are going to change. And you have to learn these are skills that you have to build and you have to practice in order to really be able to get to the point where you want to be. And so that, you know,
Conny Graf 15:07
I totally agree. I totally agree. I just published a podcast episode I think two or three weeks ago. Well, when this gets published, it's longer ago that was called "decluttering is not a one time event". It's not. It's not it's, it's like taking a shower, brushing your teeth. It's a daily thing. It's a regular thing. It's Yeah, you can just get it done only once. So just a little side question. A lot of people have a lot of trouble with decluttering things from people who passed and moved on. You have? I mean, I have my tips because like, I lost my dad when I was 20. So I kind of know what you're talking about. What would be your tip how to let go of things from people who are not here on Earth anymore.
Keri Lonny 16:07
So, I guess there are a couple of points that I can touch on this. Because it is it's going to be difficult no matter what you do. I mean, I actually you know, I think back sometimes when go I can't believe I got rid of that or I can't believe I did this or that's how I handled things. At that point, I was just in such desperation that I had... I was making decisions without really, really sitting on them. And so a couple of things that I would recommend is considering, besides of what you're trying to keep, for example, pictures, you can keep thousands of photos, and you can still keep them organized and or you can have them digitally. I mean, there are so many options. But if you're looking at a couch, I mean, that's a whole different story, you know. And so I think you really need to consider the size of what you want, whatever the item is that you want to keep.
And then I think that the next thing that I would do is think about how that item makes you feel. Are you keeping it out of obligation? Or are you keeping it because you truly appreciate what it stands for and what it and the memories that it brings back. Um, one of the hardest things that I had to face was overcoming everybody else's judgment. And I remember having a conversation with several of my family member Because they would say, Oh, I can't believe you got rid of that. And I looked at them. And I said, I am the one that you delegated and trusted to take care of these items. I am the one that had all of the responsibility put on me. And I deserve to have my own life that isn't led by other people's obligations. You trusted me to make the right decision. And if you want all of the things back, that you know that I have left, you know, you I mean, you can have them and that's okay. But if you want me to take care of it, you have to let go. You already did. So now it's time to follow through on that decision.
And so, you know, overcoming the obligation and really, really getting honest with yourself and deciding, is this something that I want to keep or am I keeping this because I'm afraid of what other people might say or I'm afraid of the results of my decision. And then I'd say that the last thing that I really did was think about whether I was keeping something that was useful or something that would ultimately inhibit my lifestyle. You know, there is I've been on this journey where I've been trying to create the life that I want for four years now.
And one thing that I've learned over and over again, is that everything can't fit. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about fitting something into your mind and letting go of, you know, you're learning how to prioritize, or if you're talking about physical items, if you have a dream, and if you have a goal for the lifestyle that you want, you have to really consider whether the items that you're keeping are actually holding you back from achieving those goals or not. So, you know, for me, I kept just a couple of items. I have a T shirt that my dad wore all the time, and we got when we went on a trip to Seattle. And first not Seattle, San Francisco. Anyway, I tried out for American Idol when I was 16. And it was the shirt that he wore in line with me and I kept that shirt and I have turned it into a pillowcase. Yeah. And so, I think really considering how you want this person's life to be represented in your own life, because what you're keeping is actually just a symbol of who that person was.
We are not our clutter. We are not the the material things around us. We are so much more than that. And we have to really learn how to disconnect who we are from the things that we have.
Conny Graf 20:12
I totally agree with you and you said it so beautifully. So the things that I have from my dad are only a few but they mean a lot. And I actually see them every day too. So I that's one of the things that I always say like if you keep something then at least make sure you see it not pack away in a box. Make him part of your life him or her, make them part of your life.
Or the price possession that I have that I always talk about is my grandma's cooking pot. My grandma is no more. And before she went to the old folks home, she asked me She said, Do you want anything from my home and I said, I want to have your orange cooking pot because that's what you always cooked dinners and lunches in. And I still have this pot. It's over 30 years she passed, but I still have that pot. I cook with that pot at least once a week. And she's part of my life. So I feel I honor her way better like this with only this one thing that I have from her. Then keeping boxes and boxes of stuff the way somewhere like your relatives probably wanted you to deal with this stuff. And it's not helping so Yeah, totally. I totally agree
Keri Lonny 21:32
I love that. And I, I absolutely agree with the point that you made about keeping things packed away. What are you really doing other than having extra baggage in your life? And because it's on representing that person?
Conny Graf 21:46
No. And the person isn't part of your life if if she's packed away he or she packed away in boxes in the basement or in the attic, you know, it's like, how are you honoring that person? or How are you honoring the things of that person if they're packed away somewhere and never looked at? So?
Keri Lonny 22:04
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And that actually, it brought up a memory. A couple of days after the accident. We were really looking at finances and trying to figure out how we were going to make everything work without my dad because he was the biggest breadwinner of everybody in my home. And they had my mom and dad had had a storage unit my entire life. I can't even remember not owning a storage unit, you know?
And that was one of the things we looked at. We were like we need to go and we need to Clear out the storage unit. And I remember when we got there, I just bursted into tears, because they've been paying. I mean over the course of my life thousands of dollars to bring this stuff along with us. And it was old tires. I mean, it was boxes full of school supplies and office things that we might use someday and we were paying $70 a month. What could you do with that money? You could Oh, what could my parents have done with that money if they had let go with those items that weren't serving them anyways?
Conny Graf 23:05
Yeah, such a good point. Such a good point and and storage units have their place. But most people don't use them the way they're intended. They're, they're using them to hang on to stuff that they actually should like go and waste a lot of money like you just said, yeah. So you had to get rid Oh, that's really hard. Like when you have to get rid of so many, like you said for different households. I think you told me or some something like that. Got to get like go off. This is, um, this is hard work hard work. So how long does it take you? And when did you get out on the other end? Kind of,
Keri Lonny 23:47
oh my goodness, I feel like I'm still going. but hmm, I would, it took me probably two years before, I had everything set up to where I was really focusing on setting up home systems for my own family. And it wasn't just managing clutter anymore and trying to figure out, get rid of and purge the, you know, excess. So I'd say, expect to take a year before you're at a point where things feel comfortable and it's really easy to manage. At this point. I'll get stressed out sometimes because you know, with three kids, and I mean, there's four people then I mean, you look around and you're like, Oh my gosh, there's clutter everywhere.
And I'm finally finally at the point where It'll take me an hour and a half to get my entire home cleaned out, I'll go through the drawers. And I'm like, oh, there actually isn't anything to get rid of I already did it all. And that's an incredible feeling. It's so freeing to not have to take care of all of this stuff because it takes so much time and energy. And it is a stressor. And I feel like people push that away, we become clutter blind, and we don't recognize how much the clutter is actually affecting our life. But it really is and I really would urge people to take a look at their every day routines, and really kind of do like a time audit to see how much time they're spending just managing their things. And that's, you know, I think that's one of the first steps that I took after I had gotten to that point. I went okay, now what stealing all of my time because I still don't have enough and I've got to figure this out. I have you noticed I want to do other things with my life then just take care of my stuff.
Conny Graf 25:32
Yeah. When stuff owns you, you don't own the stuff anymore, you know? Yeah, and people can feel that. So I often like I go, and we may just do a three hour session or a two hour session, and we get rid of some stuff, or are taking care of some stuff, and they already feel some way, getting off of their shoulders. And so if people that have not experienced this, they don't believe it, that clutter can weigh on you, but it actually does and you don't feel it because your body is so used to it and our brain is capable of putting blinders on and not seeing it anymore, because that's the only way how the brain can survive basically, because otherwise the visual clutter that would come towards you all the time the brain couldn't handle it, so it has to block it out. So yeah,
And so you also told me that and you touched on this already a little bit that it helped a lot for your own mental health to get rid of all that clutter, and then it freed you up to start your own content management business. So, do you want to talk about that a little bit, too?
Keri Lonny 26:52
Yeah, absolutely. So it's kind of interesting, because when you start journeys of any kind, it doesn't matter whether it's a weight loss journey, or you start a business, or you're just trying to declutter and get your home in order this, there's this interesting tie between having goals in your life and personal development. And the more time that you spend really focusing on getting your life in order, the more that you grow as a person, and that's kind of what happened to me.
So after I finally had my clutter in order I started a ... I started trying to make a real business work because I knew that I wanted to be more than just a stay at home mom that felt trapped by her circumstances. And money is always the key. It just feels that way, money is always the key. And so I knew that if I started a business, I would have freedom that I had the freedom that I was really searching for. And so I went through so many different things. You know, I started a blog and I did some ecommerce and I tried all of these different things.
And at some point, I recognized that, through all of these business fails, I had been building a skill set that was highly desired in the business world. And so I kind of found my place as a VA creating content for other people. I love writing it makes me feel super excited. And so I take other people's podcast episodes or their videos, and and then I create written content from them or I, I edit the podcast, I do all sorts of stuff with that. So that is kind of what I've been floating on. And what I've been doing for the last couple of years, and I really enjoyed the work, but I feel super called to start helping other people that were in my situation find the same freedom that I have found.
Because my journey includes so much more than being able to write content for other business owners, I have my own message. And I actually am going to be launching or I am launching a Facebook group that where I'll be doing trainings to help moms. You know, figure out whatever goal it is that they have figured out how to get rid of those obstacles in a way because I've dealt with all of them. I've dealt with the clutter I've dealt with, not being able to stay on top of my home and time management, not having support in your business and all of that stuff. And so I really want to create a safe space where moms that feel like they have they are being called to change their lives can go to try and figure out how to start making it happen.
So that's kind of what I have going on. Now, I've been working as a VA, but I'm really trying to start branching out and kind of launched my own business. I haven't decided whether it's going to be a blog or a podcast or anything, but I'm starting with the Facebook group and the community. So that we can just connect to people can say, Hey, this is where I need help. And I'll be able to help them and you know, really just answer their questions.
Conny Graf 30:00
Yeah, I think that's awesome. And you're perfectly qualified to do that, because you went really through a rough time, so you know what you're talking about, and you can, you can help them for sure. No matter what situation comes up for them. And if you want to you we can make I'll put a link in the show notes for your Facebook group. So if somebody is interested to join, they can join.
Keri Lonny 30:27
Yeah, I would love that.
Conny Graf 30:28
Yeah. And so since we're talking about mom's just another little side question. You have like a hot tip. How do you stay organized with three kiddos because I have some moms in my audience and they always say like when you have kiddos forget it you can't stay organized. So now you managed to declutter really hard stuff go through grief become organized. And you had three kiddos. So, you're the perfect person to ask for a hot tip.
Keri Lonny 31:05
Yes, you know, I actually, I have so many things that I could say. But I think that what it really comes down to is keeping it simple. So I kind of have this thing and when I was blogging I coined a phrase, never grew my blog. But I coined the phrase with no audience, that you have to focus on "The Big Three". And the big three includes laundry, dishes, and food. And if you care if those every single day, then you're going to learn how to have time to get the extra stuff taken care of.
But if you don't have a plan for those life is going to feel so chaotic. And I actually have this whole process that I've gone through and that I would be willing to teach other people on how to get there. You know, I spent 10 minutes a day on laundry. I used to spend four or five hours every every three days, you know, washing and folding and doing everything and doing five or six loads at a time.
And you know, chores are really the least important part of my life now and they take minimal, a minimal amount of my attention and it's opened up so many amazing opportunities like After this interview, we're gonna go hike to a waterfall and go swimming, you know, and that's something I didn't have time to do before, because I didn't learn. And I didn't take the time to get organized, and to make it happen. And so, come up with a plan to manage the big three. And then when you have extra energy, that's when you really want to start focusing, and really start focusing on a goal. Now that would be my best tip.
Conny Graf 32:47
I love that tip and I think it's so unique. And I'm pretty sure people are gonna contact you and want to learn more about the big three, because ....
Keri Lonny 32:59
that really changed my life. And, you know, it's funny because, like I said, before, people look at you and they think, Oh, you've got it all together. Life must just be easy. I don't know how you managed but it's not hard for you. And that's just not the case. I still have times where I look around and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm drowning. And, you know, my business, that's been a huge learning curve.
And it's frustrating and I have, everybody has obstacles, it doesn't matter what level of life they're at, or where their statuses or I mean, we all have something that feels difficult. But when you learn the foundation, and when you have the foundation under control, everything else is just extra, I guess, if you can keep that foundation in place, you're always going to manage to get back to that place where you can handle it. And you don't get overwhelmed. And that's what the big three is really about. It doesn't sometimes, you know, when I first started working, I was working 80 hour weeks, because I was juggling everything trying to make it all work by myself.
And my house was an absolute wreck all of the time, but nobody noticed except for me because nobody else really cares that much and The big three were taken care of. So my kids were fed, they had clean clothes to wear. And we had dishes to use when it was time to eat. Nothing else really impacted our lives. So, yeah, I think they get it wrong if they focus on everything else first
Conny Graf 34:38
So true. So true. And I think that is the perfect ending. Because, like, I could talk with you all day. But you want to go to the waterfall and to go swimming. I don't want to take up more time. I'm really honored that you shared your story with us on my podcast here. It must have been incredibly hard. I only went through part of it myself with my dad passing when I was 20. So I know how you have to grow up quick. Your situation was way more difficult with two little children and Yeah, so you're an incredibly strong woman. So where can people find you if they want to find you?
Keri Lonny 35:24
Um, so I have just started building my presence everywhere. But I would love if people were willing to connect, you know, you can DM me, or just follow my handles on all platforms, so I have Twitter and Instagram, is @IamKeriLonny. And then my facebook group. I don't have a short link for that one yet. So you'll just have to check the show notes.
Conny Graf 35:50
I will put it in the show notes so that they can find it easily.
Keri Lonny 35:54
Yes. And then my website is KeryLonny.com. That's k e r i l o n n y.com.
Conny Graf 36:01
Okay, perfect. I will put that all into the show notes too. And I hope people are flooding towards you because I think you have a lot to help are a lot to teach and a lot to offer for people that are drowning in clutter.
Keri Lonny 36:16
Thank you. So much Conny and I really appreciate this opportunity to come and share my story. It means a lot, and I'm ready to help other people because I know how they feel.
Conny Graf 36:25
Yeah, no, I was so happy to have you on the show. Thank you so much Keri for your time. Thank you. Bye bye
If you have any questions
If you have a question about decluttering, organizing or something you heard me talk about on the podcast I'd like to invite you to a free public call "ask Conny". You can ask me a question anonymously or just listen in what others ask.
Register here, I look forward to seeing you there.